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Basics: "Homematic IP" - Access Point vs CCU3 - English

Verfasst: 05.01.2018, 21:11
von tomi_cc16
Hi,

If you don’t want to spend a lot of time and only want a plug & play solution, Homematic IP with Cloud Access Point (HmIP-HAP, HAP-B1 or WLAN-HAP) is what you should choose. You need to buy a HmIP „Access Point“ (always connected to the Cloud and !!! can only use Homematic IP protocol !!!) and configure the HmIP devices you want to control. There is also an official Homematic IP App for iOS and Android available, English User Guide PDF, Amazon Alexa and Google Home is already integrated and you can create with the "Automation function" your own scenarios and/or heat profiles with the App. Also you can use Home Assistant or ioBroker.

Homematic IP Starter Set with Cloud Access Point:
https://www.amazon.de/Homematic-IP-Star ... +set&psc=1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/HomeMatic-Star ... G6WE17D53Q

List of all available HmIP devices:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47572

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But if you want to go deeper, combine different programs, use both protocols Homematic & Homematic IP and be also Cloud independent (see what happened to Sonos users)!! Then you should choose as central gateway a CCU - different options available CCU2 (older, slow and no longer in production) or CCU3 (official - out since Q4 2018) - or build your own CCU with RaspberryMatic or piVCCU (both faster than old CCU2) + wireless homematic module

• CCU2 (official) - slow and no longer in production
• CCU3 (official - since Q4 2018)
• RaspberryMatic (own build unit)
• piVCCU (own build unit)

All 4 can control classic Homematic protocol and Homematic IP protocol

AP_vs_CCU3.JPG
New CCU3 out since Q4 2018:
CCU3.JPG
CCU3.JPG (18.4 KiB) 20497 mal betrachtet
https://www.amazon.de/Zentrale-inklusiv ... words=CCU3
older Homematic central CCU2 - only for small projects, beginners or modify it to a Lan-Gateway:
https://www.amazon.de/HomeMatic-103584- ... matic+ccu2



If you want to build your own modern CCU3:
+ Raspberry Pi or Tinker Board

+ RaspberryMatic software:
https://github.com/jens-maus/RaspberryMatic
+ or piVCCU software:
https://github.com/alexreinert/piVCCU

+ Wireless Homematic Module (HM-MOD-RPI-PCB): - can also be used as LAN Gateway for HM protocol
https://www.elv.de/homematic-funkmodul- ... usatz.html
+++New Wireless Homematic Module (RPI-RF-MOD) / works also with HMIPW DRAP+++
https://www.elv.de/homematic-funk-modul ... usatz.html

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Pro and Cons: Homematic and Homematic IP with CCU/RaspberryMatic vs Homematic IP Access Point (AP)


"classic" Homematic and Homematic IP with CCU/RaspberryMatic
Homematic.JPG
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Homematic_IP.JPG
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Pro:
• Up to 400 channels can be connected to CCU3 or RaspberryMatic/piVCCU
• Powerful program creation (scripts) on the CCU2/CCU3/RaspberryMatic/piVCCU and Addons
• Direct link between devices with same protocol HM with HM devices /or/ HmIP with HmIP devices (direct link works also if CCU2/CCU3/RaspberryMatic/piVCCU is offline)
• Internal functions in your home network are still available even if the Internet is not working
• High flexibility due to the possibility of installing additional software with Addons (e.g. Philips HUE, Sonos, Homekit Siri, Amazon Alexa, Node-Red …) on the CCU2/CCU3/RaspberryMatic/piVCCU
Homematic & Homematic IP devices/protocol can be connected to the CCU2/CCU3/RaspberryMatic/piVCCU (!)
• Good documented API - can be used with 3’rd party overall smart home connectors like ioBroker, Openhab, FHEM, Homee, Home Assistant, Conrad Connect … and many Apps
• Big (German) fanbase, scripts and know how available !!!

Cons:
• No official Cloud Service available (but you can use e.g. Cloudmatic for a small fee to use cloud functionality)
• No official smartphone App, but there are many very good Apps for iOS and Android (see list below) from independent developers available e.g. Smartha App
• Access from the Internet e.g. for an App to the CCU2/CCU3/RaspberryMatic/piVCCU must be done per VPN or e.g. Cloudmatic service.
• The CCU system needs a training period by the user and can be seen as a small hobby from a certain size - you should definitely have fun and be ready to put time into the project !!!
• Still Old fashioned web administration (WebUI) interface of the CCU2/CCU3/RaspberryMatic/piVCCU - It cannot be used as a visualization on a tablet. But there are Apps and Addons solutions available
• In one room the recommendation is not to mix Homematic IP protocol and Homematic protocol devices because a direct connection is not possible between different protocols
• Very small English speaking fanbase
• Can take a lot of your time if topics and progams are getting bigger ;-)


Homematic IP with Cloud Access Point (HMIP-HAP, HmIP-HAP-B1 or HmIP-WLAN-HAP)
Homematic_IP.JPG
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Pro:
• Official App for Android and iOS (not for Windows Phone) - also third party Smartha App available
• Amazon Alexa and Google Home integration
• IFTTT and Dashboards through Conrad Connect since Q4 2018
• Easy handling of the App - much more suitable for users who have little desire to work for hours to set up details
• Full control and highly secured free (!) Cloud (!) - you do not have to worry about whether you're on your Wi-Fi network or on the other side of the world. The access always works - if the Cloud works
• Very simple setup - The central Homematic IP Access Point is simply connected to the internet router, everything else is done by scanning the QR codes on the devices with the smartphone.
• Modern design
• Own Scenario and heating profiles available
• New products constantly created - see the full device list
• Home Assistant, ioBroker and FHEM is already possible (but no official Rest-API) and Smartha App

Cons:
• No configuration of the system on the computer possible, the App must be used
• Maximum of 80 HMIP devices to one Access Point (but with the latest Update multiple HMIP Access Point can be used simultaneously and more devices than added)
• Older "classic" Homematic protocol devices can not be taught to the Homematic IP Cloud Access Point only Homematic IP protocol devices (!!! CCU can do both protocols !!!)
• No Internet, no Cloud, no internal Wifi configuration or control thru App - but direct connections and some basics are still working - also security functions are now working without the internet !!!
• No access with other systems to the data of Homematic IP, no official documented API - therefore Homematic IP cannot be combined until now with other systems like Openhab, Homee,…☹ - but Home Assistant, ioBroker and FHEM was done with Reverse Engineering Rest-API
• No official interface, no individual scripts/programs/Addons possible
• No Apple Homekit Siri, IFTTT, ... integration/interaction - unofficially with Home Assistant, IoBroker and FHEM possible

Homematic IP User Guide PDF English
https://www.eq-3.com/Downloads/eq3/down ... -Guide.pdf
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Homematic and Homematic IP with CCU/RaspberryMatic - Important Info
CCU3.JPG
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Homematic.JPG
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Homematic_IP.JPG
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VPN and Amazon Alexa connection by cloudmatic for 22,95€ per year (use Chrome to translate the page) - constant updates & support
https://www.cloudmatic.de/cloudmatic-connect.html

Homematic Link Collection for Beginners (read it !! it's in German but so important - use Chrome to translate the page)
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22801

Homematic manuals (check also the "Brochure" - Download-Type for a good overview)
http://www.eq-3.com/service/downloads.html

Homematic WebUI manual in English (Fan Project)
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=45485
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CCU Apps for iOS:
@Home 2.0 - Very good App for Free with Basic functions
Smartha App -Very good App for CCU, HmIP Access Point and Philips HUE but with InApp Purchase for fair price
PocketControl HM - Good iOS App but expensive, extra prices for IPhone and IPad - don't buy the Abo
iOS Home App(Homekit) from Apple (needs Homekit Addon or Redmatic Addon or a Homebridge Server, but adds Homekit)
Easy App - Works only with the complete Cloudmatic VPN package purchase

Android Apps:
Smartha App - Very good App for CCU, HmIP Access Point and Philips HUE but with InApp Purchase for fair price
TinyMatic - Very good App, but needs the XML Addon
Home24 - Ok App, needs XML Addon
Easy App - Works only with the complete Cloudmatic VPN package purchase

Windows 10
Smartha App - Very good App for CCU, HmIP Access Point and Philips HUE but with InApp Purchase for fair price, theoretically you can design everything in Win10 and copy than the backup to your Smartphones, Tablets & PCs
HausMeister ok - but I guess only in German available

The official "Homematic IP App" from e-Q3 is only for their "Homematic IP Cloud Access Point" - !!!not for CCU1/2/3 or RaspberryMatic!!![/b]

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Basics: CCU3 How to extend the wireless range for Homematic and Homematic IP

Basics: Push message for Homematic with Telegram App

HM + HmIP @ Raspberry PI - RaspberryMatic or piVCCU

Addons & Tools for Homematic CCU / RaspberryMatic

EN: WebUI & Script Documentation for CCU / RaspberryMatic

WebUI Step by Step Videos for CCU / RaspberryMatic

Unofficial English Homematic Wiki

Home Automation Hubs – Home Assistant, openHAB, ioBroker, FHEM, Homebridge, Homee, Mediola – Compare for Homematic CCU + HmIP AP


German Homematic Video Tutorials:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5myDgVQ ... h-jaVvyKeq

Step-by-Step in English: Send PUSH Message to your Phone for Telegram App:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34793&p=331564#p331564
Pushover App: (use Chrome to translate the page)
https://www.technikkram.net/2017/07/hom ... e-schicken
iOS Homematic App @Home (use Chrome to translate the page)
https://www.technikkram.net/2016/03/hom ... richtigung
iOS pocket control HM (use Chrome to translate the page)
https://penzler.de/phAnleitung/Anleitun ... ungen.html

Wake-on-LAN (for PC, NAS, ...)
1. Install latest CUxD Addon
2. Create a new Programm on the CCU2/RaspberryMatic with Code:
string stderr;
string stdout;
string wake;
wake = "/usr/local/addons/cuxd/extra/ether-wake -Your MAC-Adress";
system.Exec(wake, &stdout, &stderr);



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German Source: https://www.technikkram.net/2016/06/hom ... s-richtige

Re: Basics: Differences Homematic IP vs Homematic in English

Verfasst: 04.02.2018, 09:50
von Sergo
that is excellent summary! Many thanks!
Reading...

Re: Basics: Differences Homematic IP vs Homematic in English

Verfasst: 04.02.2018, 16:35
von tomi_cc16
Thank you - I hope it will help newbies & english speaking people

I also added some Important Duty Cycles Scripts for classic homematic

Re: Basics: Differences Homematic IP vs Homematic in English

Verfasst: 11.09.2018, 13:15
von tomi_cc16
+++Updated with new CCU3 information+++

Re: Basics: Differences Homematic IP vs Homematic in English

Verfasst: 11.09.2018, 21:50
von Sammy
Attention, here are some things mixed up.

homematic IP does not automatically mean, that you have to use the Access Point with the cloud service. All HmIP components also work with the CCU2 and CCU3 (and often allow more settings and features with a CCU)!

All the differences listed above mean 1. HmIP used with cloud and HmIP-App or 2. HM (and HmIP !!!) used with a CCU2/3

Best Regards and thanks for the good summary,
Sammy

Re: Basics: Differences Homematic IP vs Homematic in English

Verfasst: 12.09.2018, 12:31
von tomi_cc16
Thank you for the feedback - I updated it so it's more clear that HM and HMIP are different protocols.
CCU can speak both protocols (HM and HMIP) and Cloud Access Point only HMIP protocol.

Re: Basics: "Homematic IP Access Point" vs "CCU (Homematic + Homematic IP)" in English

Verfasst: 11.06.2019, 01:14
von tomi_cc16
Made some smaller updates on the first page

Re: Basics: "Homematic IP" - Access Point vs CCU3 - English

Verfasst: 07.08.2021, 19:07
von eboris
Hi there and thanks for the very instructive post !
Help a lot to understand the difference between the Homematic IP access point and CCU.
I wondering if it is possible top combine both, connecting both on some HmIP components?

Re: Basics: "Homematic IP" - Access Point vs CCU3 - English

Verfasst: 15.08.2021, 23:59
von tomi_cc16
eboris hat geschrieben:
07.08.2021, 19:07
Hi there and thanks for the very instructive post !
Help a lot to understand the difference between the Homematic IP access point and CCU.
I wondering if it is possible top combine both, connecting both on some HmIP components?
Since some months you can have a CCU3 or Homematic IP Access Point as you basic central. And add more Homematic IP Access Points as an additional Gateway. This technique is called Advanced Routing- see here the video:
https://youtu.be/moHwpGpMfJY

Re: Basics: "Homematic IP" - Access Point vs CCU3 - English

Verfasst: 06.10.2021, 14:47
von Ganfoud
Hi
I'm considering replacing my max! devices by Homematic Ip devices, including the HMIP access points
My objective is to integrate this in my current Home Assistant installation and in the middle term I intend to use one of my RPi to use as a CCU
I was wondering if I first set up everything with the AP and then want to switch to the RPImatic, do I have to set up everything again?

also, when I use the RPimatic as a gateway, is it possible to use the APs as repeaters if necessary (I understand that it is possible from the post above but I have a doubt)

last question: what happens if the AP or CCU is crashing/unavailable? I guess that as for the max! devices, they keep their configuration and work according to the schedule? and if there is a relay integrated in the system, can it still be controlled by the vanes/thermostats directly without the AP/CCU being available?
thank you!