Basic and regular radiator thermostat

[Paul_1]

Hi,

My question is probably pretty basic one, I searched this forum but didn’t find an answer. If there is one, my apologies for missing it
Ok, here we go with my doubts

I want to buy a Homematic IP heating control set including the following items:
1) Access Point
2) Radiator Thermostats (RT)
3) Temperature sensor with display (TS)

I’ll use an app to control it. In one, bigger room I’m gonna use RT + TS. In smaller rooms I’ll start with RT only (if this is not enough I’ll add TS as well).

I ‘m curious if buying this set is a good idea: https://www.amazon.de/Homematic-IP-Smar ... B07TY2KB7R

Is it a regular product or some obsolete stock? I’m wondering cause it seems pretty cheap.

Also what is real difference between the basic RT https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... basic.html and RT https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... ostat.html

Anything apart from the obvious which are the design and metal ring?
On the web page there is different description of heating profiles:
‒ “Individual temperature profiles with up to 13 changes per day via an adjustable heating profile” – basic RT
‒ “Up to three adjustable week profiles: The room temperature can be adjusted according to individually tailored heating phases (up to 6 per day with configurable temperature)” – RT.

But I’m not sure what is the actual, real-life difference between these.

And most importantly: does basic RT work with the TS? I mean does basic RT gets the temperature from the TS and heats according to TS’s measurement?

Sorry for such a long post with boring questions, but I’m new to this and would appreciate some support on the above.

Keep warm everybody
Paweł

[tomi_cc16]

Hi Pawel from I guess Poland,

welcome to the English speaking section - so lets try to answer your questions

My question is probably pretty basic one, I searched this forum but didn’t find an answer. If there is one, my apologies for missing it

I guess you already read this topic here before you asked :
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=41325

and maybe here:
https://www.eq-3.com/Downloads/eq3/down ... -Guide.pdf

Or a Demo of the App:
http://app.homematic-ip.com/

I want to buy a Homematic IP heating control set including the following items:
1) Access Point
2) Radiator Thermostats (RT) from tomi_cc16: we call it eTRV
3) Temperature sensor with display (TS) - from tomi_cc16: we call it WTH

I’ll use an app to control it. In one, bigger room I’m gonna use RT + TS. In smaller rooms I’ll start with RT only (if this is not enough I’ll add TS as well).

If you work with the Access Point than you only get the full function if you put in one room 1x Wall Thermostat (e.g. HmIP-WTH-2) and 1 to x radiators (e.g. HmIP-eTRV2 or HMIP-eTRV-B ). You can also put just the radiators but the App will not display you the actual temperature (even the radiator has the sensors). I guess the producer wants to buy you always a wall thermostat
Full List can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47572

I ‘m curious if buying this set is a good idea: https://www.amazon.de/Homematic-IP-Smar ... B07TY2KB7R

Is it a regular product or some obsolete stock? I’m wondering cause it seems pretty cheap.

Regular - if you not buy it in a set the prices are:

Checked with idealo.de single prices for the Bild set:
1x Access Point (HmIP-HAP) 45€
1x HMIP-eTRV-B 39,90€
1x HMIP-eTRV-B 39,90€

Also what is real difference between the basic RT https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... basic.html and RT https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... ostat.html

Anything apart from the obvious which are the design and metal ring?
On the web page there is different description of heating profiles:
‒ “Individual temperature profiles with up to 13 changes per day via an adjustable heating profile” – basic RT
‒ “Up to three adjustable week profiles: The room temperature can be adjusted according to individually tailored heating phases (up to 6 per day with configurable temperature)” – RT.

But I’m not sure what is the actual, real-life difference between these.

No Life Changing differences.

HmIP-eTRV2 - normal version - I have at my home
+ Contains a light in the Display
+ You can activate the "quite" modus
+ Has a metal ring

HMIP-eTRV-B - is the basic Version for e.g. the Bild Edition - I put them at my parents home
Has all the functions like the normal eTRV2 version but without
no - Display light, quite modus, plastic ring instead a metal ring

You can use google chrome to translate this page:
https://technikkram.net/2019/11/verglei ... hermostate

You can also buy e.g. the Silvercrest Starter Edition from Lidl - it's also Homematic IP and works with all Homematic IP devices - please install the Homematic IP App not Silvercrest !!!
https://www.lidl.de/de/silvercrest-heiz ... it/p290340

And most importantly: does basic RT work with the TS? I mean does basic RT gets the temperature from the TS and heats according to TS’s measurement?

Check my answers I gave here:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54669

Sorry for such a long post with boring questions, but I’m new to this and would appreciate some support on the above.

Keep warm everybody
Paweł

No problem - we are happy if we can help.

One question from my site - How did you found out about Homematic IP?

[Paul_1]

Hi Tomi,

Thank you for all you explanations! This is very helpful!

Actually, I did read almost all the materials you linked (apart from the application demo)

I thought that WTH can control eTRV because of the second bullet point listed here (https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... t-366.html): "Regulates the room temperature in connection with one or more Homematic IP Radiator Thermostats or Homematic IP Floor Heating Actuators"

But I guess this is true only with CCU, right? I want to keep it simple so I’ll go with the Access Point.

Currently I have Honeywell Rondostat HR20 Radiators (like this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honeywell-Rond ... B000KNE738).

It also has programmable heating cycles (no remote control of course). But I want to upgrade, cause these HR20 radiators are lagging terribly: they do open and close the valves on defined time but I’ve got impression that the temperature in the room is not what I set: it’s too low at the beginning then for some time it is ok, then it is too high. If the outside temperature is significantly different it adds up to the problem (it overheats or keeps you in the cold I understand that partially it is physics and it takes some time to heat or cool down the room. But the main thing is that they are not very sophisticated devices

From what I read I understand that Homematic IP takes into account the time it took last time to reach the temperature set, it also takes into account the weather (based on internet forecasts). So I guess it should do much better job.

How is it going only with eTRV – is it ok, or a Wall Thermostat is a must to have really comfortable conditions? I guess in small room like 10 m2 eTRV should be enough but in a bigger room like 25m2? What is your experience?

Yes, I’m from Poland. I was reading posts under an article advertising Netatmo system and people were discussing Netatmo, Tado and some other systems and someone mentioned that he had Homematic IP and was pretty happy about it. That’s how I found out

Once again thanks for all your help, I notice you keep this site going

[tomi_cc16]

I thought that WTH can control eTRV because of the second bullet point listed here (https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... t-366.html): "Regulates the room temperature in connection with one or more Homematic IP Radiator Thermostats or Homematic IP Floor Heating Actuators"

Please don't buy HmIP-STHD (your link) to control the room.
The WTH-2 is this: https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... t-336.html
or as basic variant: WTH-B: https://www.homematic-ip.com/en/product ... basic.html

I also recommend to use a sensors for the window - so the radiator will close automatically when the window is open - here many variants are possible:
- HMIP-SRH (Window Rotary Handle Sensor)
- HMIP-SWDO (Shutter Contact)
- HMIP-SWDO-I (Shutter Contact Invisible)
- HMIP-SWDO-PL (Shutter Contact Plus) longer battery life
- HMIP-SWDM (Door / Window Contact - magnetic)

And yes, the WTH is controlling the eTRV's - he tells them if the temperature is not reached to open the valve more.

But I guess this is true only with CCU, right? I want to keep it simple so I’ll go with the Access Point.

With the CCU3 / RaspberryMatic you have much more options - the Access Point has more basic funtions for not so deep technical users - but your read my link so you know

Currently I have Honeywell Rondostat HR20 Radiators (like this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honeywell-Rond ... B000KNE738).
It also has programmable heating cycles (no remote control of course). But I want to upgrade, cause these HR20 radiators are lagging terribly: they do open and close the valves on defined time but I’ve got impression that the temperature in the room is not what I set: it’s too low at the beginning then for some time it is ok, then it is too high. If the outside temperature is significantly different it adds up to the problem (it overheats or keeps you in the cold I understand that partially it is physics and it takes some time to heat or cool down the room. But the main thing is that they are not very sophisticated devices

I use Homematic and Homematic IP products now since 6 years and can not complain regarding the heating.

From what I read I understand that Homematic IP takes into account the time it took last time to reach the temperature set, it also takes into account the weather (based on internet forecasts). So I guess it should do much better job.

Not sure if it really takes the weather into account - but the measured temperature int the room and open window - if you add the sensor .

How is it going only with eTRV – is it ok, or a Wall Thermostat is a must to have really comfortable conditions? I guess in small room like 10 m2 eTRV should be enough but in a bigger room like 25m2? What is your experience?

Works ok for small room - I use it in our guest restroom without a wall thermostat. But for bigger room - definitely you need a WTH-2 or WTH-B.

The problem is the original App that will not show you the actual temperature without a e.g. WTH-2. There is a workaround - the new "smartha App - coming out Dec" can show you the temperature from the radiator. Or CCU3 and 3rd party App - here all data points can be read and shown.

Yes, I’m from Poland. I was reading posts under an article advertising Netatmo system and people were discussing Netatmo, Tado and some other systems and someone mentioned that he had Homematic IP and was pretty happy about it. That’s how I found out

Which City in Poland?
Can you name the link about the discussion where Tado and HmIP was mentioned?

Btw. there are some Homematic IP videos for Access Point:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZqO0B ... cnQ/videos

Or the CCU:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYh0OO ... upA/videos

But mostly in German

Once again thanks for all your help, I notice you keep this site going

Try my best in the english section, FYI - there is also a quite active German Facebook Group called - "Homematic IP Tipps und Tricks"

[tomi_cc16]

I think its also a good price for 59€:
https://m.reichelt.de/set-heizen-easy-c ... stct=pos_1

Or 129,95€:
3x HMIP-eTRV-B
3x HMIP-SWDM

https://www.tink.de/homematic-ip-starte ... eFCvFE1jFU

[Paul_1]

Hi Tomi,

Thanks for replies.

I found quite a few reviews of Homematic thermostats on amazaon which says something like this:

"I have been using several radiator thermostats for over a year - in theory you program the desired temperature time course and then you should have nothing to do. But the problem is that the difference between the temperature measured by the thermostat and the actual room temperature varies constantly depending on the outside temperature. For example ,
I have winter and 10° in the room and see that it (despite sufficient running time) is 1 degree colder than set, so I set the offset at the thermostat to -1° then it fits again. But tomorrow it has 3° and I have to correct the offset again to say -2° a few days later the temperature rises again and I notice that it is way too warm - offset back settle again.
Now I have to set this individually per thermostat and each room behaves differently - the bedroom at the corner of the house on the weather side cools out much more and requires a higher offset, the living room, on the other hand, the children's room somewhere in between...
So I'm constantly busy adjusting the programming so that in the end the temperatures I have set come out. Since it is easier to use conventional thermostats from time to time. In addition, the maximum offset of -3.5° in our bedroom at outside temperatures in the minus range is no longer sufficient to reach the set temperature, so you have to adjust the heating profile from 16° to 17 or 18 to compensate."

This is exactly the problem I'm experiencing with my current Honeywell "smart" thermostats. There is a couple of reviews like this. I guess wall thermostat is a must.

I live in Warsaw. This is the link to discussion I mentioned: https://antyweb.pl/inteligentny-termost ... ch-modeli/

Regards,
Paweł

[tomi_cc16]

There is a couple of reviews like this. I guess wall thermostat is a must.

Yes, I really recommend to have a e.g. HMIP-WTH-2 per room

[Paul_1]

Hi everybody,

I asked eQ-3 customer support about the eTRV and temperature sensor (STHD) and it seems that they do work together as I though. Here is the customer support's reply to the same question I asked here in my first post:

"The HmIP-STHD is also a wall thermostat, so it is sufficient for your task. If you assign an STHD with an eTRV in one room the STHD is the master unit. The internal temperatur sensor of the eTRV is then disabled."

So, case solved and sounds like good news to me

Keep warm everybody,
Paweł

[tomi_cc16]

But with the WTH-2 you can control it also manually with the STHD only per App. I really recommend to buy WTH-2 but its up to you