Floor heating + Radiators

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Tedeor
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Registriert: 06.01.2020, 16:01

Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Tedeor » 06.01.2020, 16:12

Hello,

I am moving to new place where there exist mixed system of heating. 4 zones of floor heating and rest of rooms have radiators. The system is heated from gas boiler to 75C and water for floor heating is cooled down to 35 degrees by mixer.

The setup I am thinking is following:
HMIP-FAL24-TR for HmIP-FAL24-C6. For floor heating Valve Drive 24 V, for radiators HmIP-eTRV-B. All rooms with Thermostats to control temperature.
Now my concern is following I have to control gas boiler (in case any of rooms requires heating) and mixer in case that floor heating requires heating.

Gas boiler has contact 230V for heating on/off. Mixer will be just on/off.

I assume I must use HmIP-WHS2 to do that?

Hausmeister
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Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Hausmeister » 06.01.2020, 21:45

Right out from reading what system you have, this seems to be the suitable Unit for controlling the Main Heating system.

But i am not sure if you really need to control the Gas Boiler, as i might assume it restarts itself when reaching a certain water temperature "low", and stops heating when it has reached the upper limit temp.

So i would control the room temperature, and if the floor heaters and the radiators open for heating the rooms, the Boiler should recognize that there is hot water requested...

without any smart system, you would also not have to manually turn on and off your central boiler, right?
CCU3 für Heizung, Sicherheit, Energiesparen, Anwesenheit und Klingel
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Sergo
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Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Sergo » 07.01.2020, 07:18

Tedeor hat geschrieben:
06.01.2020, 16:12
Gas boiler has contact 230V for heating on/off. Mixer will be just on/off.

I assume I must use HmIP-WHS2 to do that?
While all described sounds reasonable, could you provide more details on exact purpose of those contacts group, as it described by manufacturer?
This should also help to clarify concerns highlighted by Housmeister.
For example, what that heating on/off switch designed to do? Force gas heater to be On? or it’s an thermostat connection socket, designed to request heat when it’s needed, but not preventing gas heater from stopping by overheat (or for example, if it also used to provide hot water for shower - switch on by that need).

If you meant what I got :D WHS2 is a way to go. Some field details about device is here, if you haven’t seen viewtopic.php?f=49&t=46514&start=40

Tedeor
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Registriert: 06.01.2020, 16:01

Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Tedeor » 07.01.2020, 16:08

Thanks for you answers.

Yes the gas boiler connection is connection for thermostat so just to request heating. Maybe I do not understand exactly how the system works but I was afraid that when all valves are closed (radiators and floor heating) the gas boiler should not start its own pump to avoid overpressure. Gas boiler is dual function.

I will check the topic now.

I forgot to note I am using homematic IP. I think it does not matter.

Tedeor
Beiträge: 5
Registriert: 06.01.2020, 16:01

Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Tedeor » 08.01.2020, 08:39

One more quick question.

Is it not better to use HmIP-FALMOT-C12 with HmIP-VDMOT?

Tedeor
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Registriert: 06.01.2020, 16:01

Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Tedeor » 21.01.2020, 12:34

Hey I have one more question. I was wondering what is better:
HmIP-FALMOT-C12 with HmIP-VDMOT or HMIP-FAL24-TR for HmIP-FAL24-C6.

I think VDMOT is better but now I am starring to think that maybe its better to have HmIP-FAL24-C6 with https://salus-controls.com/pl/product/thb2430/ ?

It seems that THB have two temperatures sensors which you connect on outfeed and infeed of each loop. Using that information it automatically regulate flow to keep delta T 7 degrees (or 4 if infeed is below 35 degrees). It seems that it balance well different loop sizes without need to manipulate with flow meter on infeed.

dtp
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Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von dtp » 21.01.2020, 16:53

Hi,

we have a similar heating system in use, i.e. a floor heating for the ground floor and radiators in all other rooms from basement to top floor. The heating system is fired by gas. However, I can not recommend to electrically control the gas burner and/or the heating system by using a HomeMatic power actor. The problem is that many heating systems will lose their parameters (incl. system time) when turned off for a certain time period. And if the gas burner is remotely turned off, this might lead to an error message of the heating system. Therefore, the heating system should work independently upon the settings of the floor heating and the radiators. A much better option would be to remotely control certain parameters of the heating system, if possible. For example, to set the heating system into vacation mode or something similar. If this is not possible, you should better leave it as is.

For the ground heating we use an HmIP-FAL230-C6 in combination with some HmIP-WTH-2 and HmIP-SRH. The FAL230 controls six conventional dual state valve actuators by pulse width modulation. In my opinion, this would be a better solution for a heating system like ours compared to a FALMOT actuator with motor driven valve actuators because of the special heating temperatures.

Best regards,

Thorsten
CCU3 mit stets aktueller FW und den Addons "CUxD" und "Programmedrucken", ioBroker auf Synology DiskStation DS718+ im Docker-Container;
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Tedeor
Beiträge: 5
Registriert: 06.01.2020, 16:01

Re: Floor heating + Radiators

Beitrag von Tedeor » 24.01.2020, 12:39

Thanks dtp, but I think I will change concept.
I will not install FAL24 or FALMOT at all. I will put on/off switches with auto balancing valve (TBH2430) which will be controlled directly from HmIP-STH through HmIP-FSM.
As I understand it is possible to that or I should use HMIP-WHS2?

Problem is that Valve has only on/off signal and then it regulate it self to keep temperature delta 7 degrees between feed and return (or 4 for temp below 30 degrees). But since FAL24 is PWM it cant be connected to that. This will balance floor heating. Then for radiators rooms I will use HmIP-eTRV-B.

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